Cliche or Outdated Metal - Your Opinion / Discussion

Cliche or Outdated Metal - Your Opinion / Discussion

Hey gang !

I thought I would open up some dialog about a discussion I had with a guy a while ago.

He calls himself a metal head in the Power and Classic Metal sense.

He mentioned that there were certain things that he has grown tired of over the years in Classic Metal and Power Metal.

One being Looong guitar solos and the other Super High Vocals.

His argument was that he feels fans get turned off when a vocalist belts out high soprano notes quite regularly or even in every song. He doesn't think it holds as much impact as it used to and that it probably leans towards showing off.

( which is crazy ! A Metal vocalist Showing off ??? PoppyCock ! ! )

He felt that hitting and holding super high notes is no longer impressive, but a crutch of Classic Metal and Power Metal vocalists because they either A: have no other ideas or B: Clinging to what was cool in the past.

What do you guys think ?

Discuss !

PS : I dont see how it is possible for this guy to say he's a fan of Classic Metal with opinions like this. I think his idea of Classic Metal is WAAAAAY off.

I think they're part and parcel of the genre. I'm not sure whether he is arguing that they limit the appeal for people, or that iit reveals a lack of imagination, or that they're showing off. Whilst I don't think power or classic metal will ever enjoy the mainstream awareness and popularity of the 80s, I don't hink those 'cliches' are limiting its appeal to a wider audience -maybe he's just bored with the genre. Sure, there are cliches with any genre of music, but you either accept them or you don't dependong on if you like the music.

Showmanship has always been part of classic metal -it's about entertainment, so if the guitarist shows off, that's fine by me - expect it in that genre. The high notes from a vocalist can be useful within the dynamics of a song. It's all about song structure (see Theocracy's Laying the Demon to Rest where he holds the note for twenty seconds while the rhythm slows), but maybe it is overused by some.

I think he's just bored with the genre, where familiarity has bred contempt. There's nothing wrong with being bored, but those aspects are part of the genre's appeal for those fans who still like the music.

Well, long solos by mediocre guitarists, yeah, I can see that being cliche. But by quality guitarists, it's just natural. And not liking the high range . . . you're not into classic/power metal . . . keep on walking

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J Ray wrote:

( which is crazy ! A Metal vocalist Showing off ??? PoppyCock ! ! )

This is totally siggable!
lol!

Seriously, though, I think you're right. If someone is lamenting the continued use of high pitched vocals and long guitar solos (both stalwart aspects of traditional & power metal), either their idea of what trad metal is wasn't right to begin with, or they feel there's something wrong with that style of metal in some fashion anyway. Granted, hitting some high notes may not have the same impact it once did, but a talented vocalist utilizing their God-given range is the same today as it was 20 years ago. So while you may not get the same chill in your spine from hearing a certain note now as opposed to when you first heard it (like the first time I heard Ez Gomer sing, "He's the suffering servant, the son of GOD!"), it still sounds good.

Same with a good guitar solo. They fell out of "fashion" when the grunge era came in, because casual fans & those who weren't truly immersed in the style became tired of the overuse of the guitar solo convention, so they decided simplification was the thing. That trend continued, and we have genres like hardcore and metalcore that only occasionally utilize solos for effect, probably so they have more impact when they show up on the album. But in more traditional styles of metal (thrash, trad, power, classic, etc) it is still expected, even if used a bit more sparingly than in metal's commercial "heyday".

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Last edited by oldschooldoom on Sat Nov 14, 2009 8:44 pm; edited 1 time in total

I thrive on "Cliche or Outdated Metal". I think any and all that know me know this fact. My favorite genres are what is now called classic rock, classic metal, and traditional doom metal.

But I don't embrace all "high pitched vocals and long guitar solos", it has to be QUALITY. And secondly not overdone.

I realize many in the younger generation are bored by the pioneers (Bride, Bloodgood, Styper, etc). And from that spurs innovation with newer genres and sub-genres.

I SSSSOOOO look forward to hearing Michael Sweet belt out the tunes on monday night. I realize that he(same age as me) no longer can do what he once could but he will not disappoint.

Rock on my friends and like Tommy Chong said in the movie 'CARS', "honor the classics, man!".

Number of posts: 450 Age: 19 Registration date: 2009-07-27 Points: 851

i hate cliche metal

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Last edited by LastFirstborn on Fri Nov 13, 2009 7:00 pm; edited 1 time in total

There is no such thing as outdated good music. In my opinion, music is either timeless or it sucks.

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Hguols wrote:

Spoken like a true black metaller. Wait, what?

Number of posts: 935 Age: 18 Registration date: 2009-08-18 Points: 1486

i love bands with super high loud voices thats what gives power metal its POWER WOO! YEA WOO! Grim Banger

and all metal is timeless to me in the famous words of Jack Black you cant kill the metal! Banger

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All good points !

My opinion, this dude I was referring to.... He's not a TRUE Classic Metal fan. He may like certain Classic Metal albums or bands... but Classic Metal - IS the vocals and solos. As was mentioned... it's part of the genre.

I also agree, everything should be done with QUALITY and Taste. An over use of anything gets too old.

An earlier post by LastFirstborn is right on... either its quality is Timeless... or it's not.

I think the dude I chatted with has Metal Identity Confusion anyway.

Banger

Tried and True, thats my opinion

I love vocal styles of all types so it don't matter to me either way. King Diamond for his high falsetto vocals (I don't listen to him much anymore due to faith n'stuff like that) James Hetfield for his old voice, his growls, his voice is ok too with his screaming and what not. Tim Owens is another favorite singer of mine, love his stuff on Iced Earth like the Glorious Burden and Framing Armageddon albums. Rob Halford of Judas Priest or Dio of Sabbath, like I said I like all type of vocals so it don't matter to me one way or the other.

Dude. Solos rock. End thread.

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LastFirstborn wrote:

Shut up, hatters.

I never have been much of a hat person really

J Ray wrote:

Cliche or Outdated Metal - Your Opinion / Discussion

Hey gang !

I thought I would open up some dialog about a discussion I had with a guy a while ago.

He calls himself a metal head in the Power and Classic Metal sense.

He mentioned that there were certain things that he has grown tired of over the years in Classic Metal and Power Metal.

One being Looong guitar solos and the other Super High Vocals.

His argument was that he feels fans get turned off when a vocalist belts out high soprano notes quite regularly or even in every song. He doesn't think it holds as much impact as it used to and that it probably leans towards showing off.

( which is crazy ! A Metal vocalist Showing off ??? PoppyCock ! ! )

He felt that hitting and holding super high notes is no longer impressive, but a crutch of Classic Metal and Power Metal vocalists because they either A: have no other ideas or B: Clinging to what was cool in the past.

What do you guys think ?

Discuss !

PS : I dont see how it is possible for this guy to say he's a fan of Classic Metal with opinions like this. I think his idea of Classic Metal is WAAAAAY off.

Blind Guardian is the best power metal band I can think of; they show quite a bit of diversity within their genre, in my opinion.

Dragonforce is an example of the kind of power metal I detest. I listened to an album of theirs and it all sounded the same, there was no buildup or progression or anything, it's just blisteringly fast right from the get go and doesn't vary much. A bit of variety is good, for all genres. Even speed metal can change gears once in a while.

Solos are good. 12 minutes of soulless, technical shredding is not (ie Yngwie Malmsteen kind of stuff). Solos work best to enhance a song, not to be a song.

Here's an example of how I think a solo should fit into a song, in fact the solo makes this song (fast forward to the 2:02 mark) but it isnt the song itself, if you know what I mean: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGmWLQPQmDY

I have been a classic metal fan since it was new and i still love it, i love loooong guitar solos of Quality and high piched vocals. Like Bride "Heros" i never get tierd of hearing dale belt out that long scream , it helps the dynamics of the song. I also have evolved into likeing more moderen music (death metal,black metal ect....) to ,i can say all genres have good quality bands and some sucky ones too. i just think this dude leans more to a differant genre than classic metal but i dont buy his argument at all. Its just his personal taste IMO.