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 Democratic Socialism for the USA now

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olias



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PostSubject: Re: Democratic Socialism for the USA now   Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:00 am

Kamerad Ash wrote:
I'll bet your wrong 325ad.

This Bill.. whle being too weak and only insurance reform.. is going to be a crdit to the dems, not a liability.

Giving more people access to life saving healthcare is never a political liability .. no matter how many times the word "socialism" and "mau" is used by Fox pundents.

The Republicans were not opposed to this Bill for the sake of the American people. They were opposed top it because the Insurance Industry is opposed to being regulated.

The Republican Party is more and mroe being seen for what they are.. a wholly owned subsidiary of Corporate America.


You live in your own little world. Come out of your hole and realize that the American public is mad as hell at having their money stolen from them to fund a system bound to collapse.

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325ad



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PostSubject: Re: Democratic Socialism for the USA now   Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:33 am

Kamerad Ash wrote:
I'll bet your wrong 325ad.

This Bill.. whle being too weak and only insurance reform.. is going to be a crdit to the dems, not a liability.

Giving more people access to life saving healthcare is never a political liability .. no matter how many times the word "socialism" and "mau" is used by Fox pundents.

The Republicans were not opposed to this Bill for the sake of the American people. They were opposed top it because the Insurance Industry is opposed to being regulated.

The Republican Party is more and mroe being seen for what they are.. a wholly owned subsidiary of Corporate America.



I am not wrong! I am as right as Rain!! Under this new plan because my wife and I paid our dues went to college and then grad school to become professional people with highly marketable skills we are going to be taxed an additional 1/3 ( People with incomes over 100 grand ) to pay for the dead weight of society who can not seem to get their **** together. The only people this benefits are the uneducated, the lazy, and the crack whores. Sorry for the rough language but as a person or a family who has to pay extra because I did the right thing this totally Sucks!

Another prediction I have is another secession from the union if the government keeps pushing these kind of deals thru at midnight or later ( The States Rights Movement is the strongest it has ever been since the American Civil War of 1861.) To quote one of your favorites Ash, "When the people fear the govenrment there is tyranny, when the government fears the people there is Liberty.


Last edited by 325ad on Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:35 am; edited 3 times in total
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metalgrinch



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PostSubject: Re: Democratic Socialism for the USA now   Tue Mar 23, 2010 10:25 am

I'm in agreement with 325, if I were rich, I'd be pissed! This new law is nothing but a bunch of... BS

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Kamerad Ash



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PostSubject: Re: Democratic Socialism for the USA now   Tue Mar 23, 2010 6:32 pm

Quote:
I am not wrong! I am as right as Rain!! Under this new plan because my wife and I paid our dues went to college and then grad school to become professional people with highly marketable skills we are going to be taxed an additional 1/3 ( People with incomes over 100 grand ) to pay for the dead weight of society who can not seem to get their **** together
.

So everyone who can't attain health insurance of health coverage do to being sick and/or poor and having pre-existing confitions.. and or not being able to afford 400 dollars a month for their own policy.. doesn't have their Sh*t together?

Your ignorant.

Quote:

The only people this benefits are the uneducated, the lazy, and the crack whores.



That is a Satanic , Social Darwinian statement. You'd make a good nazi.

I like how "the uneducated' are listed alongside the lazy and crack whores.

Where would you classify the rich or upper mmiddle class crack whores and lazy people? OR do you not know they exist?


Quote:
Sorry for the rough language but as a person or a family who has to pay extra because I did the right thing this totally Sucks!


HOw are you paying extra in taxes due to this Healthcare Reform? Their is no inreaes in taxes.. that I know of... to pay for it.

You are not paying extra taxes for this.. and the taxes you are paying.. you can thank reagan for. Did you not know that Regan is the guy wo raised taxes onthe middle and upper middles class and poor drastically.. while lowering taxes on the rich?
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therockismighty



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PostSubject: Re: Democratic Socialism for the USA now   Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:05 pm

Wow.... times like these I am grateful for where I live...

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Kamerad Ash



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PostSubject: Re: Democratic Socialism for the USA now   Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:11 pm

therockismighty wrote:
Wow.... times like these I am grateful for where I live...


Yea.. you live under the "tyranny" of Universal Healthcare and Healthcare is viewed as a Right in your country and not as merely a privilege for those who can afford it.. so you have lost a great amount of Liberty.. apparently....

According to the American Conservative.. you have not Liberty and are Horribly oppressed by having these things. ......

Yes, these are the people I get to live around in the USA.

drunkfall
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therockismighty



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PostSubject: Re: Democratic Socialism for the USA now   Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:27 pm

Yeah I pay for it out of my taxes, so I deserve it.

Its not seen as a horrible thing here, in fact its the norm... there would be psychotic riots if they took away medicare here. Its a basic right to be able to access health services. We aren't corrupt communists.. do you think Australia is a threat? or too socialist? , we have our own problems... but thank the Lord we can live easier and not freak the heck out if one of our kids gets sick or breaks a bone... wouldn't you be rejoicing that it will only cost you a small amount, rather than thousands???!!!

People are going off tap because its Obama doing this and it seems like they are robbing you to pay for it, they already rob you blind!!!!! so whats the difference?

Atm over my way we are seeing the state being less in control of hospitals as they have effed it up big time, federal government is stepping in so all hospitals are of good standard etc... Yay!

Why are you all so angry when none of your money is yours... truly it isnt....?! If you believe in God and His word, you believe all things given to you is from Him and to be done for Him... so realistically, He can make sure you have enough funds for what you need... wants are different.

I will be working my arse off my whole life anyways, so policticians can bicker in a building for inflated pensions and wages for their whole life.

I am sad that you are all raging about helping the poor, when in fact that is what we are called to do!!!!!! Yes Obama doesn't seem fully awesome, I don't give a poop about Obama... neither should you... concentrate on Gods might, not a governmental fool.

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Kamerad Ash



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PostSubject: Re: Democratic Socialism for the USA now   Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:38 pm

actually. the rock .. our taxes are not getting raised to pay for this.. that is one of the reasons it takes four years before most of the new policies even come into play.

the complaint about " my taxes are going up to pay for this".. is actually just the default position of American Conservatives anytime something to benefit Society might cost money..( altough you will hear no complaints from them on the trilions we have spent on going to war ).... it is rhetoric that gets spread around from one person who hears it, then to another.. cause it adds something else to critique a party and position you are opposed too.. regardless of it actually not being true.

The people that claim this can back this up with precisely zero facts.

the facts.. thus far.. show that federal taxes on the middle class and poor have only decline slightly under Obama.
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Tracker



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PostSubject: Re: Democratic Socialism for the USA now   Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:21 pm

I'm going to ignore all of this and lay it out my opinions on this whole thing:

It would bother me less if:

a. we weren't trying to fund all 3 entitlements(Social Security, Medicare and this new Nationalized Healthcare) if they dropped the first two, I would say I wouldn't like it still but it wouldn't be such a big deal since as Ash and Katie point out, people would riot because they are already dependent on the first two(which is a sickly brilliant goverment play, but I must acknowledge the facts)

b.If the goverment wasn't going to make me BUY health insurance under threat of fines/jail via the IRS.

c.Katie, btw, the system that is best to run a secular goverment by the way, has nothing to do with Christianity or the Bible, which last I checked said nothing about the goverment making society help the poor, Christians are supposed to help the poor.

It's what's best for humanity as a whole, and that's not under a mixed economy or a Euro/Aussie-socialist setup. However the greatest private non-profits to help the poor work there way up were started by Christians (Goodwill, The Salvation Army)

d. Ash, you still haven't noted how we are going to have enough doctors with this nationalized healthcare(that's currently a emerging problem in the 'old' system), unless you expect the goverment to roll out a grant for it (which do exist for engineers/scientists and teachers)

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Kamerad Ash



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PostSubject: Re: Democratic Socialism for the USA now   Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:54 pm

Quote:
d. Ash, you still haven't noted how we are going to have enough doctors with this nationalized healthcare(that's currently a emerging problem in the 'old' system), unless you expect the goverment to roll out a grant for it (which do exist for engineers/scientists and teachers)


We already have enough doctors.. we have a shortage of primary care doctors.. because it is currently more profitabel to practice a specialty.

But guess what... ? all Specialists can pratice as family and primary care doctors. IN order to be a spcecialist you have to first pass all fo the trainging neede to be a primary care physician.. and then ge the extra training for the specialty. So.. once there is an increased incentive for more primary care/family doctors.. then the positions will quickly be filled.. by docotrs who are currently practicing as specialists.


btw.. I disagree with the Mandate part of the Bill. It si only because we don't have a storng public option yet or simglepayer that a mandate is even needed.

If people get mad enough about the mandate.. then we will end up with the Public Option system ( medicare buy in for all).. or some other weak single payer system.. This would make me happy.. because these would be closer to being real reform.

That being said.. I wouldn't worry about the Irs fining you form te mandate.. State medicaid will be changed so that it becomes available to people without kids and people making 130 percent of poverty level.. instead o 100 percent. For people maming under 88,000 a year. their will be Federal Subsidies available for you. ( of coures, the Insuracne companies will still find a way to rape you though).. that is why we will need to end up with some sort of Strong Public option.. or just go to Singlepayer.
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325ad



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PostSubject: Re: Democratic Socialism for the USA now   Tue Mar 23, 2010 10:57 pm

Kamerad Ash wrote:
Quote:
I am not wrong! I am as right as Rain!! Under this new plan because my wife and I paid our dues went to college and then grad school to become professional people with highly marketable skills we are going to be taxed an additional 1/3 ( People with incomes over 100 grand ) to pay for the dead weight of society who can not seem to get their **** together
.

So everyone who can't attain health insurance of health coverage do to being sick and/or poor and having pre-existing confitions.. and or not being able to afford 400 dollars a month for their own policy.. doesn't have their Sh*t together?

Your ignorant.

Quote:

The only people this benefits are the uneducated, the lazy, and the crack whores.



That is a Satanic , Social Darwinian statement. You'd make a good nazi.

I like how "the uneducated' are listed alongside the lazy and crack whores.

Where would you classify the rich or upper mmiddle class crack whores and lazy people? OR do you not know they exist?


Quote:
Sorry for the rough language but as a person or a family who has to pay extra because I did the right thing this totally Sucks!


HOw are you paying extra in taxes due to this Healthcare Reform? Their is no inreaes in taxes.. that I know of... to pay for it.

You are not paying extra taxes for this.. and the taxes you are paying.. you can thank reagan for. Did you not know that Regan is the guy wo raised taxes onthe middle and upper middles class and poor drastically.. while lowering taxes on the rich?



Once again you are wrong Ash, on several fronts.

1st. Pre existing Condition is a crock of xxxx. That is a insurance company term, to negate having to pay claims. Everything to some extent is pre existing it is called heredity.

2nd. In America if you are anything other than a White Male you can get money for education, so to be non educated at a university or at a college level is generally a choice someone makes along the way.

3rd. I will have to pay more in premiums to cover people who can not afford to pay their premiums and or their co pays.

4th. It was not Reagan who raised taxes but Bill Clinton. The first thing Clinton did when he took office was raise taxes on all commissioned or bonus income by a third.

I DO NOT WISH TO KEEP THIS GOING BUT YOU NEED TO GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT BEFORE YOU CALL SOMEONE OUT.

To call me a Nazi or a Satanist is a little rediculous. In the perfect world setting we would live as they live in Star Trek. We would learn to do away with monetary instruments and live for the betterment of society, but as it is we live in an imperfect world. Why should people who did the right things be penalized or forced to take care of those who did not do the right things?
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JeffdlS



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PostSubject: Re: Democratic Socialism for the USA now   Wed Mar 24, 2010 8:05 am

Stop it with the name-calling. Final warning to all.

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325ad



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PostSubject: Re: Democratic Socialism for the USA now   Wed Mar 24, 2010 8:17 am

JeffdlS wrote:
Stop it with the name-calling. Final warning to all.


I am not calling names. Just pointing out ones error of ways! Razz
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