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 Democratic Socialism for the USA now

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Kamerad Ash



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PostSubject: Democratic Socialism for the USA now   Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:38 pm

If you as an American have had enough of ... social darwinism... screwing your neighbor to get ahead... Satanic social ethics... unrestrained greed... inequity... wars for profit.. profits over people... worker enslvement..


And would prefer.. Democracy.. equity... Christian social ethics.. carrying about your neighbor.... better quality of life.. more security... peace of mind... worker self management.... then start breaking up the US propoganda about Socialism. Now. Grim Banger




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againsttheantichrist



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PostSubject: Re: Democratic Socialism for the USA now   Fri Mar 19, 2010 5:01 am

I can't see how Socialism will solve anything.

Can you elaborate as to what ways it could potentially help?
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FireProphet



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PostSubject: Re: Democratic Socialism for the USA now   Fri Mar 19, 2010 5:49 am

againsttheantichrist wrote:
I can't see how Socialism will solve anything.

Can you elaborate as to what ways it could potentially help?
Lessen the exploitation of the poor/weak by the rich/powerful.
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againsttheantichrist



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PostSubject: Re: Democratic Socialism for the USA now   Fri Mar 19, 2010 12:23 pm

FireProphet wrote:
againsttheantichrist wrote:
I can't see how Socialism will solve anything.

Can you elaborate as to what ways it could potentially help?
Lessen the exploitation of the poor/weak by the rich/powerful.


Actually, that would become even worse. There will be larger taxes because the government will be essentially determining what kinds of services and how much you get.

Quality will go down, incentive will go down.

I don't know about you Ash, but I am not about to trust a bureaucrat, that could care less whether I even was born into this world or not, with a decision that could determine whether I live another 20 years or die in the next month.

Leave that decision to the people effected and those who have the EXPERIENCE to determine the best route of attack. Most of these politicians are so brain-dead to our non-essential needs anyway. All they care about is getting lots of $$$ and getting reelected.

Ash, that can't happen unless the people consent (which they obviously aren't right now). If they force it down on us, everyone, and I emphasize EVERYONE, will no longer have a seat in office. If they aren't capable of doing the will of the people, we'll kick them out the door and find someone that is willing to LISTEN to us.
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olias



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PostSubject: Re: Democratic Socialism for the USA now   Fri Mar 19, 2010 5:44 pm

I think Orwell was a democratic socialist. Just an factoid I thought of...

carry on...

_________________

like a fine wine, i must age over time
-Jim

Hguols wrote:

squirrels >>>>>>>>>>>> pudding

Death over Life wrote:
olias wrote:
I am mexican. Therefore I will throw "o"'s at the end of all words, even when I am not speaking speaking spanish Razz


tl;dr

Who cares?
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Kamerad Ash



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PostSubject: Re: Democratic Socialism for the USA now   Fri Mar 19, 2010 6:50 pm

Quote:
Actually, that would become even worse. There will be larger taxes because the government will be essentially determining what kinds of services and how much you get.


Under our current PLutocracy system , we have had an increase in taxes on the middle class and poor to make up for the reduction to almost nothing in taxes for the super rich, via the reduction in capital gains taxes to around 5 percent that happened under Bush. ( The Rich do not pay w-2 taxes ).

Taxes need to be raised on the wealthy baclk to what they used to be. That way we could lower taxes on the middle and lower classes.

THe Lie of Trickle Down economics was just that- a lie. The vast majority of the welathy do not seek to spread around their wealth to the middle class.. tey instead use it to find ways to screw the middle and lower class out of more money.. that is the nature of Capitalism. That is what we have seen lead us into this economic collapse that we still have not crawled out of. Derivatives and other FRAUDULENT corporate wallstreet schemes to makes more and more money in an illegal way on the backs of the populace... that is where unregulated Capitalism has taken us.


Quote:
Leave that decision to the people effected and those who have the EXPERIENCE to determine the best route of attack. Most of these politicians are so brain-dead to our non-essential needs anyway. All they care about is getting lots of $$$ and getting reelected.


The decision has never been with the peope affected. For the people affected to be the system tot have a "decision", that mean the people have to actual have some power. A true Democracy woudl allow this.. but what we currently have...a Plutocracy.. does nto allow the People to any power.

And your point about your supposed Representatives is so true. So many of them are OWNED by the Hihgest donater... in this way they serve Private interests and not public interests. This is wat is meant when we use the term " Private Government".. verses "Public Government- which would be Representative who instead serve the populace.. instead of the financially elite.

_________________


Last edited by Kamerad Ash on Fri Mar 19, 2010 7:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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olias



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PostSubject: Re: Democratic Socialism for the USA now   Fri Mar 19, 2010 6:55 pm

Would you describe you understanding of trickle down economics for us?

And would you tell us what authors have influenced your worldview?

_________________

like a fine wine, i must age over time
-Jim

Hguols wrote:

squirrels >>>>>>>>>>>> pudding

Death over Life wrote:
olias wrote:
I am mexican. Therefore I will throw "o"'s at the end of all words, even when I am not speaking speaking spanish Razz


tl;dr

Who cares?
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Kamerad Ash



Number of posts: 1912
Age: 31
Location: Hell
Registration date: 2008-12-12
Points: 2942

PostSubject: Re: Democratic Socialism for the USA now   Fri Mar 19, 2010 7:06 pm

It shoudl be mentioned Democratic Socialists are not against Capitalim. We are for Capitalism.. in it's pure sense.. which requires that people from all economics wlak of life be able to have influence in a free market. The only way this is possible is through a mixture of Democracy as Opposed to Republicanism, Socialism in teh form of Government working for the interest of Society as a whole and not the interests of a select class, and Capitalism.. reformed as it were to that of a NON Social Darwinian wickedness, Regulated enough, but not too much to benefit society more equitably.

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olias



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PostSubject: Re: Democratic Socialism for the USA now   Fri Mar 19, 2010 7:07 pm

I think Sweden does a pretty good job of keeping things market based, but with a good mixture of social programs that work.

_________________

like a fine wine, i must age over time
-Jim

Hguols wrote:

squirrels >>>>>>>>>>>> pudding

Death over Life wrote:
olias wrote:
I am mexican. Therefore I will throw "o"'s at the end of all words, even when I am not speaking speaking spanish Razz


tl;dr

Who cares?
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Kamerad Ash



Number of posts: 1912
Age: 31
Location: Hell
Registration date: 2008-12-12
Points: 2942

PostSubject: Re: Democratic Socialism for the USA now   Fri Mar 19, 2010 7:18 pm

They do have one of the highest quality of lives of almost any other country on earth. And their ruling party is the Democratic Socialist Party.

Of course, the Swedish people are more militant than the Us people in actually having a say in their own government.. Something I have leasrned from having a Swedish friend.

It also reminds of the band Enslaved... who might actually be Norwegian though.. but anyways they stole one of throe politicians Sheep... cause they were pissed about Him tryig gto make downloading music for free- legal.. and it was on the news and they never got arrested or anything.. like would happen in the US.

The only Really pure Democracy on earth though is Belgium. A very interesting country to learn about.



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olias



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PostSubject: Re: Democratic Socialism for the USA now   Fri Mar 19, 2010 7:41 pm

dress like abbath, and then steal a sheep!

On a side note, "Venstre" is norwegian for left.

And an old friend of mine came from Belgium.

_________________

like a fine wine, i must age over time
-Jim

Hguols wrote:

squirrels >>>>>>>>>>>> pudding

Death over Life wrote:
olias wrote:
I am mexican. Therefore I will throw "o"'s at the end of all words, even when I am not speaking speaking spanish Razz


tl;dr

Who cares?
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Kamerad Ash



Number of posts: 1912
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Registration date: 2008-12-12
Points: 2942

PostSubject: Re: Democratic Socialism for the USA now   Fri Mar 19, 2010 7:46 pm

yea.. the Left in Norway are pretty much Communists.. in the pure sense of the term. The Right are Democratic Socialists. Their is no Right like we have in the US.

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FireProphet



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PostSubject: Re: Democratic Socialism for the USA now   Fri Mar 19, 2010 8:57 pm

againsttheantichrist wrote:
Actually, that would become even worse. There will be larger taxes because the government will be essentially determining what kinds of services and how much you get.
That is a limited view of what could be. Ash covered it.
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olias



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PostSubject: Re: Democratic Socialism for the USA now   Sat Mar 20, 2010 2:25 am

Kamerad Ash wrote:
yea.. the Left in Norway are pretty much Communists.. in the pure sense of the term. The Right are Democratic Socialists. Their is no Right like we have in the US.


Venstre is more left in the progressive sense of the word than "leftist" if that is what you mean.

_________________

like a fine wine, i must age over time
-Jim

Hguols wrote:

squirrels >>>>>>>>>>>> pudding

Death over Life wrote:
olias wrote:
I am mexican. Therefore I will throw "o"'s at the end of all words, even when I am not speaking speaking spanish Razz


tl;dr

Who cares?
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Theonymic



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PostSubject: Re: Democratic Socialism for the USA now   Mon Mar 22, 2010 5:45 pm

Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to have for supper.
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NorthernAsh



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PostSubject: Re: Democratic Socialism for the USA now   Mon Mar 22, 2010 9:32 pm

Kamerad Ash wrote:
Quote:
Actually, that would become even worse. There will be larger taxes because the government will be essentially determining what kinds of services and how much you get.


Under our current PLutocracy system , we have had an increase in taxes on the middle class and poor to make up for the reduction to almost nothing in taxes for the super rich, via the reduction in capital gains taxes to around 5 percent that happened under Bush. ( The Rich do not pay w-2 taxes ).

Taxes need to be raised on the wealthy baclk to what they used to be. That way we could lower taxes on the middle and lower classes.

THe Lie of Trickle Down economics was just that- a lie. The vast majority of the welathy do not seek to spread around their wealth to the middle class.. tey instead use it to find ways to screw the middle and lower class out of more money.. that is the nature of Capitalism. That is what we have seen lead us into this economic collapse that we still have not crawled out of. Derivatives and other FRAUDULENT corporate wallstreet schemes to makes more and more money in an illegal way on the backs of the populace... that is where unregulated Capitalism has taken us.


Quote:
Leave that decision to the people effected and those who have the EXPERIENCE to determine the best route of attack. Most of these politicians are so brain-dead to our non-essential needs anyway. All they care about is getting lots of $$$ and getting reelected.


The decision has never been with the peope affected. For the people affected to be the system tot have a "decision", that mean the people have to actual have some power. A true Democracy woudl allow this.. but what we currently have...a Plutocracy.. does nto allow the People to any power.

And your point about your supposed Representatives is so true. So many of them are OWNED by the Hihgest donater... in this way they serve Private interests and not public interests. This is wat is meant when we use the term " Private Government".. verses "Public Government- which would be Representative who instead serve the populace.. instead of the financially elite.


This Oligarchy you speak of is based three simple things: CONTROL, MONEY and POWER. This is NOT a good thing, nor is it good for people, it is selfishness at it's very core and centered completely around money.

Robber Barons have owned the US for the last 100 years and these sociopaths are determined to take everything they can from the American people even if they kill them in the process. This was proven Sunday night. Democratic Socialism is no different than stabbing a two year old in the head with a screwdriver and telling them "by the way, you have to call 911 if you want help."

If taxes are lowered on the middle class and poor the rich will remove themselves from American soil. It's that simple. The more you tax them, the less jobs they will create.

Most rich people own several homes and never stay in one long enough to be called a resident of that state, that's how they get out of paying taxes.

Removal of ALL taxes on income is essential to progress. Not more taxation of a specific class. You want to tax someone? Okay, raise taxes on the corporations that are swindling and killign the american people daily due to their unehtical business practices.

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FireProphet



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PostSubject: Re: Democratic Socialism for the USA now   Tue Mar 23, 2010 2:05 am

NorthernAsh wrote:
If taxes are lowered on the middle class and poor the rich will remove themselves from American soil. It's that simple. The more you tax them, the less jobs they will create.

Removal of ALL taxes on income is essential to progress. Not more taxation of a specific class. You want to tax someone? Okay, raise taxes on the corporations that are swindling and killign the american people daily due to their unehtical business practices.
I think corporations would leave, too. Our state and federal governments have spoiled them with corporate welfare so much it's ridiculous.

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325ad



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PostSubject: Re: Democratic Socialism for the USA now   Tue Mar 23, 2010 2:14 am

Dems Die Today, Come November! Mark my Words! Unless the US Economy really starts to change and more good paying jobs some how appear.

The Democratic party has sealed their fate of Doom. A Poll of people on MSN News 67% say they are pissed and angry as everyone knows this was a bad bill with many loop holes and crap tacked on like Abortion funding. Even people who voted for the clown in the whitehouse into office now know what a mistake they made! nuked
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Kamerad Ash



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PostSubject: Re: Democratic Socialism for the USA now   Tue Mar 23, 2010 3:12 am

I'll bet your wrong 325ad.

This Bill.. whle being too weak and only insurance reform.. is going to be a crdit to the dems, not a liability.

Giving more people access to life saving healthcare is never a political liability .. no matter how many times the word "socialism" and "mau" is used by Fox pundents.

The Republicans were not opposed to this Bill for the sake of the American people. They were opposed top it because the Insurance Industry is opposed to being regulated.

The Republican Party is more and mroe being seen for what they are.. a wholly owned subsidiary of Corporate America.
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LastFirstborn



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PostSubject: Re: Democratic Socialism for the USA now   Tue Mar 23, 2010 3:58 am

Why is the government going to fine people who are too poor to afford healthcare?

Isn't that completely missing the point?

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therockismighty



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PostSubject: Re: Democratic Socialism for the USA now   Tue Mar 23, 2010 5:38 am

i read something about government helping subsidize those who can't afford to pay?

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LastFirstborn



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PostSubject: Re: Democratic Socialism for the USA now   Tue Mar 23, 2010 5:46 am

therockismighty wrote:
i read something about government helping subsidize those who can't afford to pay?


I hope you're right. If so, I won't have any qualms about the healthcare bill anymore. My main concern is that the disadvantaged are benefited first and foremost.

_________________


Hguols wrote:
Spoken like a true black metaller. Wait, what?
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Sean



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PostSubject: Re: Democratic Socialism for the USA now   Tue Mar 23, 2010 6:41 am

my problem with the health care bill is who's gonna pay for the subsidizing of the people unable to afford it?
It certainly won't be straight out of the government, considering how large our debt is already.
So they'll raise taxes on everyone else, essentially meaning anyone who CAN afford the health care will be paying for themselves AND anyone who can't afford it.
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LastFirstborn



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PostSubject: Re: Democratic Socialism for the USA now   Tue Mar 23, 2010 6:52 am

Sean wrote:
my problem with the health care bill is who's gonna pay for the subsidizing of the people unable to afford it?
It certainly won't be straight out of the government, considering how large our debt is already.
So they'll raise taxes on everyone else, essentially meaning anyone who CAN afford the health care will be paying for themselves AND anyone who can't afford it.


So?

_________________


Hguols wrote:
Spoken like a true black metaller. Wait, what?
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olias



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PostSubject: Re: Democratic Socialism for the USA now   Tue Mar 23, 2010 2:59 pm

LastFirstborn wrote:
Sean wrote:
my problem with the health care bill is who's gonna pay for the subsidizing of the people unable to afford it?
It certainly won't be straight out of the government, considering how large our debt is already.
So they'll raise taxes on everyone else, essentially meaning anyone who CAN afford the health care will be paying for themselves AND anyone who can't afford it.


So?


So we shouldn't be forced too. It's not right that we should have to deal with this. It's theft.

_________________

like a fine wine, i must age over time
-Jim

Hguols wrote:

squirrels >>>>>>>>>>>> pudding

Death over Life wrote:
olias wrote:
I am mexican. Therefore I will throw "o"'s at the end of all words, even when I am not speaking speaking spanish Razz


tl;dr

Who cares?
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Democratic Socialism for the USA now

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